[Stone]

Ive found some tiny particles in my vials.

There also seems to be a sort of bubbly white sedement of some sort in them.

Return them right?

[Ares]

or it could be this one, i'm sure youve seen it though as ive spoken to you about it before.

Quote

Bacteria Results IMPORTANT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As most of you know, we have been working on the release of “UNDERGROUND ANABOLICS”, a book that examines steroid prohibition and the underground market. Today, we received the first set of lab results, which involves a test for bacterial contamination. After giving it some thought and consulting with Ronny, we agreed that the information on the failed products is important and should be released immediately.

We have not identified the bacteria species specifically so the potential risks cannot be determined. The risk in using a bacteria contaminated product can range from nothing, to serious illness. It is likely that bacteria are associated with many common reports of excessively painful or infected injection sites.

The following products failed for having 100 or more colony forming units (CFU) of bacteria.

Steroid....................Listed Manufacturer............Lot # ........Product Date
*Nandrolone Decanoate ........Diamond.....................00022.......05/01/2012
Testosterone Propionate........Elite Fitness.................0070312....12/2010
Testosterone Enanthate.........Unigen........................E8 03.........02/2010
Drostanolone Enanthate........ Golden Gear.................138..........06/2011
*Stanozolol........................ Alpha Pharma...............RX7001.....08/2010
*Stanozolol........................ Axio............................TV7R86.....12/2012
*Testosterone Suspension..... Geneza........................GP103........062011

* These products had bacteria levels significantly above the acceptable threshold, indicating notable contamination.

It is important to emphasize that the vast majority of our samples were obtained from the black market. Inherently, such products cannot be verified for authenticity. Given the high prevalence of counterfeiting with black market steroid products, even at times counterfeiting of underground labs, these are named as “Listed Manufacturer” only. It is unknown if the listed manufacturer is the true producer. If you have obtained one of these specific products on the black market you should be aware of the potential risks. We advise against using it.

[alex.p]

It's the second one AJ/Bertie, can add in the exact figures for spore count (is that right?) that was published in MD if you'd like?

There's supposedly a whole bloody book coming out on the UG labs from WL, what it'll be worth in terms of the info within I'm not sure

This post has been edited by alex.p: 07 July 2009 - 03:27 PM

[Ares]

bertie, on 07 July 2009 - 03:30 PM, said:

Let's see how the excuses flow when or if the tests are brought out. I'm guessing something like 'a conspiracy against me personally by every major UK board and/or the government', or 'tests mean nothing, you tampered with it. Or paid the lab techician to tamper with it'. Maybe the old classic 'that's not my product, someone faked it'. Maybe the old 'we did have a problem, but have been working hard to fix it - it's an isolated batch'. Perhaps throw in a fake name or two of people sacked over the issue. Perhaps a premises change threw the calibration out ir allowed ingress?

all of the above... LOL!!

Then get a trustworthy lab to produce another batch of the gear, relable and send out these "samples" to various forum's members - they then whore on all the boards saying XYZ LABS is the dogs danglies (part of the "bro" terms and conditions for recieving free gear) meanwhile XYZ LABS makes very liitle changes to production (maybe cleans their equipment once)...

[alex.p]

http://i241.photobuc...7-200919-45.jpg

http://i241.photobuc...-200919-452.jpg

There's a third page but basically says his UG lab book will be out soon and also that all samples were bought from black market not direct from labs, blah blah...

This post has been edited by alex.p: 07 July 2009 - 07:08 PM

[firest0rm]

Am I not right in thinking that those reports are old? I'm sure they're in anabolics 2006. Also just how much should we put trust into these lab reports? Is there some sort of document from the lab which did the tests which can confirm their legitimacy? I was also under the impression that WL is involved in some labs so again how much of his word can we take? I've seen lab reports showing some gear to be fine but inconsistencies in the reports were pointed out and they appeared to be fake, how can we be sure these reports arn't fake? Genuine questions here, I find it's difficult to know what is bullshit and what is genuine information with this stuff. The argument that a lab can simply say another lab is trying to bash them when a bad report on them is released is laughable, however, looking at it from a balanced view and considering reports are seemingly easy to fake the argument can hold some strength. Take British Dragon for example; I was always under the impression they were perhaps the best lab you could go for. In fact I remember seeing their website years ago and I actually thought they were a legit lab. But recently I've been told things about them, not just their products but also their business practices and things seem a little jaded. And now there's reports put in this thread showing that the majority of tests on their gear came back as a FAIL. I think it's great that people are looking out for our wellbeing and trying to sort out the shit labs from the good labs, but I was told BD was a quality lab a while back and now I'm under the impression I was lied to. I'm finding it difficult trusting anybody, whether it be a lab or somebody talking about a lab (be it positive or negative).

And you know what I trust even less? Pharma gear. With what I've read on here regarding fakes, from other sources and also from people I personally know who have been stung I feel far more safer buying from dodgy UG labs because at least they have a reputation online (again be it positive or negative). I think if I was to buy pharma gear I would only do so from people I knew online, but even so how could I possibly know it's real? How could they? I've seen people posting pictures up on forums and being told by moderators their gear is legit, only for it to come out later it wasn't. That shits me up more than anything.

[Erekosë]

firest0rm, on 07 July 2009 - 11:10 PM, said:

1. Am I not right in thinking that those reports are old? I'm sure they're in anabolics 2006. 2. Also just how much should we put trust into these lab reports? 3. Is there some sort of document from the lab which did the tests which can confirm their legitimacy? 4. I was also under the impression that WL is involved in some labs so again how much of his word can we take?

1. I think so
2. Not overwhelming trust - it's just a snapshot in time, and that's assuming you believe the author anyway
3. A proper lab will of course provide paperwork - whether it exists for these I don't know.
4. Indeed.


BD did have a few dubious practices - these are pretty common knowledge. I think most of the failed tests above though probably refer to fakes though.

[Fah_Gedda_Boudit]

firest0rm, on 07 July 2009 - 11:10 PM, said:

and now I'm under the impression I was lied to. I'm finding it difficult trusting anybody, whether it be a lab or somebody talking about a lab (be it positive or negative).

Welcome to the world of Scheduled PEDS my friend. There's so much bullshit going around that sometimes you have to remind yourself that you're not actually stood in the middle of the most crowded field of bulls that ever existed.

Quote

I've seen people posting pictures up on forums and being told by moderators their gear is legit, only for it to come out later it wasn't. That shits me up more than anything.

As above really. I've seen this done before myself on numerous, even for products which aren't even made anymore by the claimed manufacturer & haven't been so for several years.

I have to say this whle "post pics (of Pharma gear) to assertain legitimacy" approach is very flawed & not just for the reason above either....but that's going a bit O/T. Regardless, i still trust Pharma (legit) Pharma gear a hell of a lot more than i do UGL, & really can't see anything changing my mind TBH, although again that's probably another story.

[firest0rm]

Thanks lads. FGB, the thing is though you're a very well clued up moderator of a forum but what about average Joe down the gym? I speak to people from the gym who don't use the internet for their gear buying and it really is shocking the amount of people who are getting stung by fake pharma gear. The other day when the issue of those Iranian test-e's I actually had a completely unrelated phone call by someone saying they had used them and got nothing from them; this is someone who doesn't use forums and didn't read that thread. There's also the issue with who is selling fake pharma gear, around here most dealers are somewhat connected to the people who run the drugs, i.e. people you don't want to mess with. If a dealer sells you some bunk gear there really is very little you can do about it lest you run the risk of having your legs broken/shot depending on the severity of your retribution. There are of course unconnected people selling gear in the gym and I'm sure in different parts of the country things will be different but around here, well at least around Manchester and the surrounding areas this fake/crap pharma gear is doing the rounds and nobody can do/say anything about it.

Obviously if it's some chump in the gym you could just go give him a slap and get your money back but from what I've learned recently about who's selling this gear it's by people you really don't want to get on the wrong side of. So yes whilst you yourself would feel safer buying pharma gear there's a lot of people out there who are being stung royally by fake gear and when someone comes along with UG gear that actually works they're snapping his hand off. If I wasn't a member of UGM/MT and didn't know mods/experienced members who could help me buy legit gear then I wouldn't even consider it. So I think I should change my comment to I would trust a dodgy UG lab over pharma gear sold on the street.

[Paracelsus]

bertie, on 07 July 2009 - 12:53 PM, said:

I'm sorry, I really can't say what labs are safe, which are unsafe, and which I don't know about, because I'll get screamed at for bias.

No offense mate, and I appreciate your detailed replies to this thread, but if only a few select people know these results, what's the point for the rest of us?

I've no idea which lab is ok or not now, the whole UG scene is like a bloody minefield at every point for me - powders need to be good, equipment etc, then there's the supporting/bashing of labs by parties with interests and all the cloak and dagger bullshit that goes with labs being, well, illegal, which is understandable but still annoying if you aren't in the right circle of people in the know. Not moaning here, I know this is the only way labs can safely operate.

Without legit, random lab tests by independent people all we've got is anecdotal evidence from people jabbing the stuff, and that is the worst kind of evidence.

[Fah_Gedda_Boudit]

FS: I'm talkign about legit stuff, although obviously you have a valid point & TBH i don't think there's either an obvious answer or solution to the problem.

What i will also add to what we both said earlier, about dodgy "Pharma" stuff being declared as "g2g bro" on forums is that i have also seen guys (both "respected members" & Mods) state Pharma product X is no longer made & all available is 100% fake, when the reality is the Pharma do still make it, with a quick email to the manufacturer in question confirming this, with the reality being that little makes it onto the UK black market. Wouldn't like to say whether this is down to poor knowledge / regurgitation without checking themselves, or pushing people away from certain products & towards "a good lab like <insert UGL brand here>", although I've probably seen examples of both.

Talking of which, returning to the Iranians & tying it in with BS / agendas on forums: I know a source (highly rated by many too) who up until about 2.5 years ago raved about Iranians on forums, sayign how cheap & effective they where & how they were his Test of choice & the base to all his cycles.....& yeah, he used to sell them. Nowadays he's got his own lab & he advises people to say away from them because they're made in a "dodgy foreign country" & how you're better off sticking to "a trusted UGL" (ie his lab's products). I wonder if his change of heart has anythign to with owning his own lab?

firest0rm, on 08 July 2009 - 08:51 AM, said:

There's also the issue with who is selling fake pharma gear, around here most dealers are somewhat connected to the people who run the drugs, i.e. people you don't want to mess with. If a dealer sells you some bunk gear there really is very little you can do about it lest you run the risk of having your legs broken/shot depending on the severity of your retribution. There are of course unconnected people selling gear in the gym and I'm sure in different parts of the country things will be different but around here, well at least around Manchester and the surrounding areas this fake/crap pharma gear is doing the rounds and nobody can do/say anything about it.

But is that any different in essence from being sold problematic UGL gear by the local big hard mad bastard down the gym?

As i said in another thread, of all the brands commonly mentioned on UK forums (including this one) I've heard / seen of problems of one kind or another (from injection pain right through to fibres floating in the vial) with all of them. The exception to this is probably ROHM...but that is *NOT* saying they are immune to problems, only that hardly anyone on UGM uses their stuff, I almost never make it onto UK-M where it's quite popular, & on the other forum I use regulary (MT), one of their Mods has publicly stated many times he has a problem with them as a lab & goes out of the way to lock / delete threads that mention the lab, so you rarely see feedback on their stuff over there. Like i say tho, i seriously doubt someone didn't have problems with their gear at some point, just that I haven't yet seen it due to the above rather than it being "better".

Like I say, when it comes to sourcing black market PEDs & whether they are good or bad, I honestly think it's a problem that doesn't have an obvious solution to avoiding pitfalls

[Monsieur Scaramanga]

Only came across this the other day , i have to say this is very worrying ...

Bertie very good and informative posts in there , you and others clearly put in a lot of hard work aimed at keeping the commuity safe ,and i can only echo what other have said and say thankyou for your time and efforts .

[firest0rm]

Good post FGB and that pretty much sums up my point. I see a lot of the time "pharma" being recommended for everything and over UGL but I would say for the majority of people this is simply a.. don't want to say bad recommendation but can't think of a word. Perhaps misguided? Because of the sheer amount of problems for the 'masses' gear users I'd personally feel safer with a UGL. For users of UGM and other forums in the know the risk of buying pharma gear is greatly reduced, but we have to remember the majority of gear users don't use forums, at least speaking from my own personal experience I am forever telling people to double check information they are given on forums. Most of these people only know what their mates have told them, or of course what their steroid dealer has told them which to be perfectly honest is usually a load of crap. I'm not even claiming the dealers are knowingly selling fake gear, I doubt they know themselves. One example of my point is in Salford a friend has been buying gear from several dealers, all pharma and all fake/plain crap. I don't know how it works but I imagine there's 1 main guy, or perhaps 2, distributing the gear down to the sellers in a more of a weed/cocaine chain of command rather than an internet steroid source way. I say this because apparently several dealers from one end of Salford to the other all have exactly the same pharma gear and it's all fake/duff. I'm not saying Salford is a representation for the rest of the UK but you can see where I'm going with this. How many gear users must there be in Salford? At least 1000? Maybe 500 as a minimum? It must be a large number to justify stocking all of the dealers with steroids because where I live the dealers don't sell them, but we're a much smaller part of town.

So what I'm getting at is this; for those steroid users in Salford who don't use forums etc what would be safer for them? Fake pharma gear or a UGL which at least has a reputation to uphold? Pharma gear, real pharma gear, is obviously safer than UGL but for most people that opinion is simply redundant. Reading the recent threads about bits floating in gear does make me uneasy but no where near as much as not even knowing who has made this fake pharma.

[Fah_Gedda_Boudit]

firest0rm, on 09 July 2009 - 08:30 AM, said:

I'm not even claiming the dealers are knowingly selling fake gear, I doubt they know themselves.

Probably not. i do find it quite amusing when I see this "get a good source & you'll never get fakes" regurgitation (or other such regurgitated source-related nonsense) . There are sources whom i trust in terms of their own personal integrity, but i do not have blind faith that it would be impossible for them to be unwittingly sold fakes & then pass them on to customers. To think like that is incredibly naive IMO & that kind of regurgitation by establsihed guys simply perpetuates the problem. Do guys think that their sources buys all his various Pharma bits direct from the manufacturer, or that they hand check every single amp in an order of several thousand from a distribtor or something?

Quote

So what I'm getting at is this; for those steroid users in Salford who don't use forums etc what would be safer for them? Fake pharma gear or a UGL which at least has a reputation to uphold?

Assuming it's definately fake Pharma gear & not a question of unrealistic expectations etc giving poor results, then the UGL would probably be a better choice. Personally speaking however, if all i could get was UGL &/or definately fake Pharma then I wouldn't use gear period. It's not like you have to use steroids. I guess that's an individual decision tho & others may feel differently.