[Erekosë]

Over the past couple of months we (the team here) have been discussing the future of UGM and the general direction we wish to take. In order to do that we are going to have to make some changes to UGM, which we hope everyone will see the benefit of – they are certainly being done to make UGM the vest best it can be. This is going to be fairly long, but given that some of the issues are fairly tricky to tackle I'm going to do my best to explain what is going on.


For a pastime / sport / whatever that is a fairly minority one, there is a large number of bodybuilding boards out there. There's the obvious 'big two', and a pretty large number of smaller boards. I think UGM is somewhere in between these. It's my belief that there's no room at the top for UK-M or MT mark II, and that's not what we want to be anyway (although both are very fine boards) – we want to be able to offer something truly different. Speaking bluntly: I don't think we have much choice either – we need to establish our niche in order to continue.


We have a great pool of members here and there are a great many positive things about UGM that people tell us they like. As a couple of examples people like the relaxed friendly attitude here – how often do we have a spat between members? Seriously, often our mod team here is seriously under-worked (thankfully!) As a result we can allow a little more scope on what topics can be discussed – ones that might be against the rules elsewhere. Also, we do (and for historical reasons) have a good reputation for steroid advice, and while I don't want UGM to be solely about this one subject this is the first area which I think can benefit from some protecting and improvement. As stated above UGM is an excellent board, with excellent members. None of this below is intended as a nag, or a criticism at all. UGM will grow substantially this year and I guess we want to get the principles in place now while it's still easily manageable. It'll be easier to get new members to abide by the points below if it's already a firmly established part of the board.


So... what we propose:


Steroid advice


There's a very obvious tendency on every single board (including UGM, although far less) for people to answer questions that they might not be well-placed to answer. Part of the culture of steroid use is that (on boards, not in gyms) it is seem as somehow exciting – this sort of behaviour isn't seen with any other recreational drugs, but is prevalent with gear use. In order to improve quality here we'd like to be a bit different than everywhere else and just focus on the advice, rather than the culture – simply no-nonsense, drama-free, accurate help. It's very common for people with very little experience (and often none whatsoever) to give replies to questions – we often get people with much experience themselves asking quite complex questions only to have a couple of pages of responses, often from people far less experienced that doesn't really add anything and almost dilutes the 'usefulness' of UGM as a info source. I guess we are asking for quality over quantity here.


So, with the greatest of respect we are going to ask people to consider whether it is actually appropriate to answer a question, based on their own level of experience. This is certainly not out of any notion of elitism – UGM will remain open and welcoming to all levels of experience – it's just done to protect the quality of our advice and to make UGM the premier place for advice in the UK (one step at a time...) The above obviously applies to all areas of UGM, but it's with steroids where it is potentially most problematic. I genuinely believe that this can be a really positive thing if we can move away from the idea that everyone has to know the answer to everything - let's just share what we do know.


Lab 'insider knowledge'...nudge nudge wink wink...


Again, unlike the other recreational drugs in existence there's a large amount of drama that revolves around labs. People having to be seen to know who's who, and what's going on with Lab A , being connected etc etc. I think we can do without it personally – is it really that important? No, at least in my opinion. The things that people know for a 'fact' are usually very contradictorily and often just plain wrong. Why? Well, any lab that has any sense doesn't go about broadcasting their activities and making themselves available for Q & A sessions, nor do they hold open days for people to inspect their set-up. Even if people truly do have some insider knowledge then they should have the sense not to be posting it on the internet. These are criminal organisations after all... Often the people making the claims have agendas of their own, and it usually boils down to selling something or the other.


So:


We will no longer allow people to post claims or unsubstantiated details about labs. Members will be asked to refrain from doing so, as it is unlikely that they can provide any evidence of such claims. It adds nothing to the board, and as with the above helps make UGM a little different – a more mature, grown-up discussion board, not rife with wannabe gear-gangsterism and dominant egos. That's not what UGM is about.

Tied into this we will be vigilant in maintaining our neutrality with regard to UGLs by making sure that we remain free of issues caused by persons with an agenda. This has happened in the past unfortunately, but we managed to sort it out. We are not allowing blatant whoring by 'reps', official or otherwise.


Just to be clear: people can still discuss labs and their products it's just none of the irrelevant stuff that occasionally goes with it, which is not needed at all and potentially dangerous to all.

[Erekosë]

I see this has generated a lot of debate - I'm finding it hard to keep up!

[dirtyvest]

LOL

Sound starting points, mate. Best of luck with taking the board forwards. Hopefully you have nipped in the bud a problem we often get (as you well know) in striking a balance there so that new members can follow suit. I think we've been associated with every lab going at some point attempts to restrain it (if we were I'd have a far simpler job sourcing for myself LOL). With any luck you can avoid all the hassle and drama that goes with such subject matters.

If you can find your niche and get some true specialists on board for it then you should have something that can really work for you. I guess you need to get that base set in early before things turn too mainstream or watered down by numbers

[firest0rm]

I can see a problem in the wording of the steroid information part, although I doubt you meant it to sound like that. You don't need experience to have the knowledge, but the point still applies. Where this may be difficult to maintain is that although someone may not be providing a valuable piece of information they themselves might in fact think they are; and this happens to the best of us not just newbies. <BR><BR>Both good points though and should help refine the board even further.

[Massimo]

An eagerness to repeat received wisdom strikes everyone from time to time, but a good poster will write suitable caveats if they aren't experienced. 'I heard' & "I think" can stimulate debate without ever leading the reader to believe they've been given an answer.

For simple questions, "which needles should I use to inject with?", I think it's acceptable to answer with a preference even for those with little experience - we can trust that experienced members will set things straight if something odd has been suggested.

The problem comes when relative newbies offer copious amounts of seemingly experienced advice in every thread. Members should expect to be asked to explain themselves from time to time, and no one should be above having their views questioned. A courteous 'WTF?' is never a bad post.

[Erekosë]

dirtyvest, on 19 January 2010 - 07:38 PM, said:

LOL

Sound starting points, mate. Best of luck with taking the board forwards. Hopefully you have nipped in the bud a problem we often get (as you well know) in striking a balance there so that new members can follow suit. I think we've been associated with every lab going at some point attempts to restrain it (if we were I'd have a far simpler job sourcing for myself LOL). With any luck you can avoid all the hassle and drama that goes with such subject matters.

If you can find your niche and get some true specialists on board for it then you should have something that can really work for you. I guess you need to get that base set in early before things turn too mainstream or watered down by numbers

Cheers DV - going to give it a good go and, well, fingers crossed!

firest0rm, on 19 January 2010 - 07:52 PM, said:

I can see a problem in the wording of the steroid information part, although I doubt you meant it to sound like that. 1. You don't need experience to have the knowledge, but the point still applies. 2. Where this may be difficult to maintain is that although someone may not be providing a valuable piece of information they themselves might in fact think they are; and this happens to the best of us not just newbies. <BR><BR>Both good points though and should help refine the board even further.

1. Technically true, but I can't think of too many examples where it is necessary (or particularly beneficial) for someone with no actual real-life experience to offer advice when others are more suited. Ultimately on a lot of issues they have absolutely no idea whatsoever if what they are saying is correct after all.

2. Sure, and no-one is ever going to be jumped on by the team for a genuine mistake. But there's a difference between even well-meant mistakes and somebody just regurgitating a load of text that they've read somewhere else. The latter seldom adds anything much to a discussion, and it is this that we are politely asking people from. The last thing we'll ever be is elitist or unwelcoming that's for sure - I'd just like to stress that.

Moreover, and fundamentally even, what we are trying here is to break some of the 'magic and mysticism' from gear use. Bottom line is there's nothing particularly big, clever or romantic about it - it's just something people do (and in large numbers these days). There's some shocking gear gangsterism that goes on on forums - I mean it's only a bit of gear after all FFS! Fortunately we don't have a big problem here, and, as above, this isn't a dig at anyone at all - rather an attempt to head it off at the pass before we get too much bigger. Sowing the seeds and all that...

Thanks for responding - much appreciated.

[Erekosë]

Massimo, on 19 January 2010 - 08:11 PM, said:

An eagerness to repeat received wisdom strikes everyone from time to time, but a good poster will write suitable caveats if they aren't experienced. 'I heard' & "I think" can stimulate debate without ever leading the reader to believe they've been given an answer.

I agree, and as above this isn't necessarily what we would pick up on (unless it becomes used as a rule loophole lol). This is why I worded it as I did - asking people to consider whether it's appropriate, rather than a blanket ban. Essentially the onus is on the person to use common sense judgement as to whether their post will further the thread or actually be accurate. A classic example is when people post up quite complicated cycles involving, say, five drugs and then you get people that are on their first cycles mixing it all around etc, even though they've probably only used one of the compounds themselves. I realise there's an eagerness, and that's usually a good thing, but in this case it sometimes gets mixed in with a little of this 'steroid bad-boy' kind of thing

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For simple questions, "which needles should I use to inject with?", I think it's acceptable to answer with a preference even for those with little experience - we can trust that experienced members will set things straight if something odd has been suggested.

Hmmm..not sure... maybe - the key relies on it being spotted by an experienced user. If it isn't then the person giving the advice (even if well meant) could be doing the poster a serious disservice. But, that said, I do accept there is some instances whereby it's not absolutely essential to have first-hand experience.

Quote

The problem comes when relative newbies offer copious amounts of seemingly experienced advice in every thread. Members should expect to be asked to explain themselves from time to time, and no one should be above having their views questioned. A courteous 'WTF?' is never a bad post.

Very much so, and I guess a very important part of all this (both points)

[drsquat]

some very good and valid points brought up.

especially by new , in experienced users trying to give complex advice that you can be prity sure has just in a round about way been copied and pasted.

from my experience i have come to more conclusions on what works for me and what doesnt. be it with AAS, training or diet then any piece of reading materials has helped me.

PED's is a huge field and i feel reading and researching is not enough, people with the true wisdom and 'practicle' advice is from those who have actually been there done that. After all you could read different material on the same subject, drug etc and each article can give different views or so called facts. A couple of different peices i noticed recently researching letro for example, one stated it reducese estrogen by aprox 70% whereas the other stated it should completly prevent estrogen so none should be present if using it, both articles come with flashing looking 'real life' test results, graphs etc, so what one would be correct?!

[tigernut]

erekose, though i can smell i serious pain in the ass for you as the board gets bigger with these points of law for this board, i cant help but admire the lot of you for trying to set standards now rather than once the horses bolted to to speak - niceone to all of ya, it should make the job damm hard but do-able rather than totally impossible.

i would say that the niche in the market part of your comments cant be denied for a second and is a wise way forward imo.

not alot to say on all this other than that really, bar saying that i would echo massimo's comments below as being a fair point, not that you disagreed with him.

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An eagerness to repeat received wisdom strikes everyone from time to time, but a good poster will write suitable caveats if they aren't experienced. 'I heard' & "I think" can stimulate debate without ever leading the reader to believe they've been given an answer.

tho i would say that to this line...

Quote

I genuinely believe that this can be a really positive thing if we can move away from the idea that everyone has to know the answer to everything - let's just share what we do know.

apso-feckin-lutley!

[SoreButtCheeks]

"Why? Well, any lab that has any sense doesn't go about broadcasting their activities and making themselves available for Q & A sessions, nor do they hold open days for people to inspect their set-up. Even if people truly do have some insider knowledge then they should have the sense not to be posting it on the internet."

Agreed, but sadly many guys running UGLs just arn't that smart and run their mouths at every opportunity.


Tied into this we will be vigilant in maintaining our neutrality with regard to UGLs by making sure that we remain free of issues caused by persons with an agenda. This has happened in the past unfortunately, but we managed to sort it out. We are not allowing blatant whoring by 'reps', official or otherwise. "

I have an agenda and that's to stop as many people as possible from buying crap products or sending money to scammers.

[redneil75]

Sorry for the late response, I missed this what with all that shagging I was doing on a tropical island and all.all makes sense to me.
Must admit, I have fallen into the trap of repeating something I believed to be fact as it came from someone I thought I had no reason to doubt. Duped, I believe would be the word! And yes it applied to a certain lab and I repeated it. So, if even a genius like me can fall for it then what hope for the rest of us!
Seriously though, many thanks to the person who subtley pointed this out to me. Also, I think all the new guidelines are spot on. Good work team. And no, I'm not whoring for rep points!

[Irish Beast]

Erekosë, on 19 January 2010 - 07:12 PM, said:

I see this has generated a lot of debate - I'm finding it hard to keep up!

I stopped reading half way down then got bored, stopped and got on with my life!

Only just read this. Seems logical enough. Ive actually stopped visiting the steroid forums on a particular large board in the last few months as the advice is about 60% useful and 20 garbage and the other 20% people agreeing with the garbage or x2ing it!